tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post5254679890952959571..comments2024-03-24T01:57:23.238+08:00Comments on 漁人碼頭的戰爭 - The Battle of Fisherman's Wharf: Japanese orphans in China 中国残留日本人孤児Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-29674997229831837902010-05-12T20:21:33.244+08:002010-05-12T20:21:33.244+08:00You're racking up some serious air miles. I do...You're racking up some serious air miles. I don't have travel plans until the fall. I'll see you come summer.Patrick Cowsillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12904899672214340947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-14261704953595038922010-05-12T16:30:43.272+08:002010-05-12T16:30:43.272+08:00I am actually in Taiwan now but am heading back to...I am actually in Taiwan now but am heading back to the US tomorrow - too short a stay for any serious beer drinking. Will be here again in late June and early July. Hope you are around then.EyeDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00406602265159523372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-69143250386401585672010-05-11T20:35:39.023+08:002010-05-11T20:35:39.023+08:00"(The other being beer.)" When are you c..."(The other being beer.)" When are you coming back? I think I owe you a beer. Looking forward to your next post. This is such an interesting blog.Patrick Cowsillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12904899672214340947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-19069883243379421792010-05-01T02:48:16.435+08:002010-05-01T02:48:16.435+08:00You have certainly showed passion - one of the two...You have certainly showed passion - one of the two prerequisites for discussion with any significance. (The other being beer.) The next post may blow your socks off. We'll see.EyeDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00406602265159523372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-12367468771500916982010-04-29T21:04:30.682+08:002010-04-29T21:04:30.682+08:00You have certainly showed passion - one of the two...You have certainly showed passion - one of the two prerequisites for discussion with any significance. (The other being beer.) The next post may knock your socks off. We'll see.EyeDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00406602265159523372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-63043265938885713622010-04-29T19:57:18.444+08:002010-04-29T19:57:18.444+08:00"No one will dispute the "victims of his..."No one will dispute the "victims of history" part. Some of us are among them and know it well."<br /><br />Yes, I know that. That is what your other blog is about in a sense. And yes, identity is not something we are born with; it's definitely not race based. Anyway, I am looking forward to your next post. I will re-read this post and lighten up too. Cheers.Patrick Cowsillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12904899672214340947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-76826290795942240962010-04-29T19:25:29.660+08:002010-04-29T19:25:29.660+08:00No one will dispute the "victims of history&q...No one will dispute the "victims of history" part. Some of us are among them and know it well.<br /><br />There was no historical precedents of war orphans, not on this scale anyway. Perhaps that is why it is beyond human comprehension. And the author of the Japan Focus article was trying too hard to make sense. The orphans' identity is not intrinsic. It depends on how much memory each orphan has retained. From talking with some now in their 70s who were repatriated early in their lives, I am amazed at the almost total recall of the childhood that they had left behind.<br /><br />In the sedition trial of 李香蘭 (Li Ko-lan or Yamaguchi Yoshiko, or Li Xiang-lan in Chinese), the well-known singer who was born and raised in Manchuria, the Chinese judge acquitted her primarily because she was born Japanese, but also because she had "Japanese blood yet the heart of a Chinese" (stated in the verdict). Li did not know she had to make the choice until the war ended when the choice was forced upon her. The war orphans did not have any choice, either. For them, the choice came later, not because of race but the basic human desire to belong, to be part of a culture, a way of life, even a dream. If you have been treated as a second class citizen most your life, then the choice to re-start as a full-fledged citizen elsewhere is easy.EyeDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00406602265159523372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-46930776528335602292010-04-28T21:17:17.470+08:002010-04-28T21:17:17.470+08:00Eyedoc, it's a sad point on those who are the ...Eyedoc, it's a sad point on those who are the victims of history, namely children. Some look to make heroes of leaders, who sit in sterile offices, pushing buttons and giving orders and not being held accountable; but these people have blood on their hands. Of course, I agree with you as we're both speaking to same thing. <br /><br />The author of the piece I question has little use for Chinese parents; that person thinks that these kids will disregard them in sensing, intrinsically, they are Japanese. That is the part I question, that is all.<br /><br />"Foreign" = cannot be comprehended.Patrick Cowsillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12904899672214340947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-6569422939822347772010-04-27T23:50:23.715+08:002010-04-27T23:50:23.715+08:00These orphans are "the victims of some kind o...These orphans are "the victims of some kind of uniquely "foreign" and perverted selfishness that teaches people to save their own skins first"?<br /><br />Patrick, a lot of their kinfolks including their mothers were dead. A few questions for you: where did the Americans find those Vietnamese orphans who were flown out by the plane loads when Saigon fell? During the siege of Leningrad, how may babies survived? And how many babies were abandoned and left to die in the siege of Changchun? Only the Japanese do it?EyeDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00406602265159523372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-58700391159144276342010-04-27T00:43:10.592+08:002010-04-27T00:43:10.592+08:00Rephrase = I say this in all honesty, as I do your...Rephrase = I say this in all honesty, as I do your points of views, just a matter of taste or experience....Patrick Cowsillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12904899672214340947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-31816364038668764642010-04-27T00:40:05.772+08:002010-04-27T00:40:05.772+08:00No, I am uncomfortable if not troubled with the un...No, I am uncomfortable if not troubled with the undertones of it, which seem racist to me. Plus I need more time to digest concepts that are utterly "foreign" to my conscience.<br /><br />The abandonment of children, no matter what place on earth we're talking about, disturbs me, and can not be justified. It's an interesting and depressing topic to be sure, but I see the writer starting out with a bias and then writing a piece to support that bias. Thanks for writing about these kids, the victims of some kind of uniquely "foreign" and perverted selfishness that teaches people to save their own skins first. <br /><br />I say this in all honesty, as I do respect your points of view. I imagine we are on the same page at the end of the day; that has seemed to draw us together in most discussions. There are some topics we'll have to call our own though, and have to beg to respectfully differ on. Stirring up and deeply distressed are not the same thing.Patrick Cowsillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12904899672214340947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-75658267825908717272010-04-25T20:33:41.902+08:002010-04-25T20:33:41.902+08:00Dear ChoSan: I think Patrick is just trying to sti...Dear ChoSan: I think Patrick is just trying to stir things up a bit to make the discussion more interesting. As you, I also have no problems with the article.<br /><br />To be fair, the Japanese war orphans lived in a time/place unknown to many outside of Northeast China. There were also abandoned young women who have even harder time returning to Japan - thanks to the unnavigable Japanese bureaucratic maze. Human suffering knows no bounds.EyeDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00406602265159523372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-49050414199366185652010-04-25T11:20:56.118+08:002010-04-25T11:20:56.118+08:00It is strange that reading the same story on "...It is strange that reading the same story on "Japan Focus", Patrick says it is odd and hard enough to accept it yet I have never feel the story is odd at all. I wonder if it were because I have survived through WWII and Patrick has not or both of us have a different cultural background? ChoSanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-38558675509578890112010-04-25T08:11:02.678+08:002010-04-25T08:11:02.678+08:00Hi Patrick,
Thinking about it more, I am not sur...Hi Patrick, <br /><br />Thinking about it more, I am not sure the West knows or cares to know anything about the plight of the Japanese evacuees from the Northeast of China, immediately after Aug, 1945. Mothers, Japanese or not, do not give up their children unless they are dead or the situation is absolutely hopeless. Also bad news traveled far, after the northern frontiers fell into Russian hands, the rest of the Japanese knew what awaited them. The local Chinese also knew it. Some sheltered the Japanese children out of profound kindness. One of them might have hid the kids for their protection. But that was only one of the 4,000 cases.EyeDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00406602265159523372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-23394684730617530492010-04-25T05:56:18.432+08:002010-04-25T05:56:18.432+08:00First, in time of war, common people do uncommon t...First, in time of war, common people do uncommon things, e.g., sheltering the innocents. The more common sentiment at that time was revenge-killing of the Japanese. That also did happen.<br /><br />Second, it is a legal matter. In the US, citizenship is based on place of birth. In Japan, China, and the more recent past in Taiwan, citizenship is based on that of the parents. The Japan Focus article refers to the loss of Japanese homeland and identity from the viewpoint of the war orphans. The Chinese certainly knew who they were and discriminated against them during, e.g., the Cultural Revolution. Once the secret is out (and sometimes not much of a secret at all), there is no holding back for the orphans to resume their [deep] Japanese identity and discard the [superficial] Chinese one. Race has nothing to do with it, it is a personal choice.<br /><br />Also, Fujimori has dual-citizenship; the Japanese one through his parents.EyeDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00406602265159523372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-20482124336055815772010-04-24T20:14:11.344+08:002010-04-24T20:14:11.344+08:00What an odd, odd story in Japan Focus. The writing...What an odd, odd story in Japan Focus. The writing style is unusual too. It must be translated. I don't why know their parents didn't hold on to them. The anecdote about the Chinese woman hiding the Japanese child in a closet so her mother couldn't find her is odd too. Why would she do this? There's no explanation. Plus I don't get how the mother, after searching frantically, simply left without her offspring. Wow! Something is missing here.<br /><br />There is a list of points I find troubling inside the article. Almost every one is dubious:<br />1. "They did not learn their own culture or have forgotten it." What is their own culture. Wouldn't it be Chinese? What is the writer trying to say? That if you're born Japanese, that should automatically trump everything else?<br />2. "They have been deprived of the love of their birth parents." Your parents abandon you but they love you? I don't get the logic here.<br />3. "They were forced into a life that they would not have chosen had their parents not immigrated to Manchuria." Well, doesn't every kid in the world live a life they have not chosen?<br />4. "They lost not only their homes but also their homeland, Japan, and they have been deprived of their Japanese nationality." Is this actually right? How was Fujimori (ex-Peruvian leader able to escape to Japan and be protected there)? And what about #1. If we believe #1, they didn't lose their homeland; it is in their imagination. <br />5. "Though usually Chinese citizens by default, they have been deprived of the universal human right to a nationality and are therefore unable to find their place in the system of nation-states." No, they are Chinese citizens. <br />6. "As a result of all of the above, they do not know their deep identities." What does this mean? That identity is indeed race-based? It's a problematic statement.Patrick Cowsillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12904899672214340947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-57119796529552125502010-04-22T21:02:21.537+08:002010-04-22T21:02:21.537+08:00Manshu Med School educated not only Japanese natio...Manshu Med School educated not only Japanese nationals but also local Chinese students. These Chinese physicians later served the population well.<br /><br />It was the same colonial medical education policy in Taiwan.<br /><br />Imperial Taihoku Univ Med School evolved through several stages as did all med schools in Japan. The classes were usually around 50% Taiwanese and the rest Japanese from Kyushu and Ryukyu, mostly from poor families. Not many were from Mainland Japan because Taiwan was still (incorrectly) perceived as a place with malaria and poisonous snakes. The entry exam into the only med school in Taiwan then was indeed very competitive, many went to Japan to study medicine instead and returned home to practice.EyeDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00406602265159523372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-43652620099340303272010-04-22T10:08:48.907+08:002010-04-22T10:08:48.907+08:00You are absolutely right. Those students who could...You are absolutely right. Those students who could not make to Taihoku Imperial University台北帝国大学, Medical School医科 all have moved to Manchuria as their alternative since the new medical school was easier to enter compared to the medical schools in mainland Japan. It is interesting to notice that similar practice is still going on today by attending the famous St. George’s University in Grenada when one is rejected by all medical schools in the States. ChoSanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-50203053496905427112010-04-22T04:50:53.879+08:002010-04-22T04:50:53.879+08:00Hi ChoSan, thanks for the additional info. I know ...Hi ChoSan, thanks for the additional info. I know that among her many published books, 朱夏 and 仁淀川 describe her own life at the end and after the war, respectively.<br /><br />I wonder if your classmate had attended 満州醫學院, now China Medical University, where many Chinese doctors were also trained.EyeDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00406602265159523372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811556140606524073.post-67459799068780777762010-04-22T03:14:47.023+08:002010-04-22T03:14:47.023+08:00Among the famous authors returned from Manchuria i...Among the famous authors returned from Manchuria is Tomiko Miyao 宮尾登美子。The scene she described how she looks like taking the first bath after returning to Shikoku四国, Japan under the moon light was unforgettable. <br />Indeed, there were so many Taiwanese in Manchuria helping Japanese on purposely or just for the sake of getting a better opportunity. One of my elder schoolmates was there for attending the medical school yet another friend was the third son born in Manchuria 満州, hence he was named as 満三。<br />ChoSanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com